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ESA - Job Centre Plus - Work Support Group Options
Louise09
#1 Posted : Friday, January 20, 2012 1:52:13 PM Quote
Rank: Advanced Member

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Joined: 10/19/2010
Posts: 88
Location: Saddleworth, UK
Hi!

I would like to share my experience of Benefits with you all!

I am a self employed Newsagent, my husband works 7 days a week. We a family business and employ 25 delivery staff and 3 part time (all family members) staff. In July my daughter and her boyfriend decided to help me by doing my shifts (6am - 12pm Mon - Fri). It was bliss! I could stay at home for a while and re-charge and get my meds etc sorted out before September came and I had to return to work. NOPE - WRONG.

In September 2011 I contacted the Direct.gov website for information on benefits available to me. I am unable to work because I am in constant pain and my flares seem to be up rather than down. No pain meds helped and MTX wasn't working. I completed the questionnaire on the telephone with a lovely lady (she asked the questions in a sympathetic way and apologised for the questions but it was the same questionnaire for everyone) I had already downloaded the form so I knew what to expect. She said I would be contacted with a decision. Sure enough I received a letter which stated that I wasn't eligible for any benefit as I hadn't paid enough into the NI fund! I was upset, stress levels up - flare imminent! I'd worked for 25 years and for the last 5 years since owning the shop I had paid double because I was self employed and employed as a PA for a Civil Engineering company. I rang them back querying my decision. They agreed that it was a "mistake" and I would receive benefits. Phew!!! Everything is ok! Except for a flare!

I received my ESA and I was able to stay at home. I received a letter from ATOS to attend a medical, for those of you who have had a medical you know what goes through your mind - will they think I am someone who just cant be bothered working or am I simply a wimp and the pain isn't that bad etc etc. Stress levels up! flare imminent! On 12th Dec my mum and I went for the medical. The nurse was lovely - she could see that I couldn't bend down to pick something up that I had dropped - well I could, just couldn't get back up again - we laughed about it. After nearly an hour of questions (most of which were repeated from the form) we left. I'm happy to report that I passed the medical and have been placed in the Work Support Group.

I went on Tuesday for my appointment at the Job Centre with an adviser. This adviser said to me - and I quote "my father has RA and was diagnosed when he was 17, he's self employed - he owns a dredging company and is still working at 79! My sister has RA and Fibromyalgia - just like you and she is still working. I have arthritis and I am working full time!" After those comments I kind of switched off - I couldn't believe that this person sat opposite me was saying all these things to me. I was a HR Manager for 2 years before I had to give up work and was sympathetic towards staff, whatever their problem! - I did not judge them or ridicule them or say "I have RA - just deal with your problem and get back to work"!!!!!

She really upset me, no she didnt, she angered me! I can understand her if she said "people cope in different ways with disabilities and illnesses and I am here to help you get back into work" then start her spiel but she didnt. She also informed me that the government have decided that everyone who is put into the Work Group should be offered a place at an information session about what the work programme can do to help me - offer of work experience for 2 weeks etc! I now have to attend this appointment and then return to her 4 days later to tell her how I feel about it!!! I am self employed and if I had the ability to work I would! But I feel as if I have been thrown into a group with other people who have had back ache for a few months, or pulled a muscle and dont want to return to work because the government is paying them to stay off work, and paying their rent and council tax and for their children to be in nursery or whatever.

To sum up - We are a group of people who have been diagnosed with a medical condition that not a lot of people understand therefore we are being treated disgustingly by the government because there are people in this country who know the benefits system better than those who work in benefits. We are being discriminated against - made to go to appointments that are not necessary but are debilitating to us - it puts so much stress on our bodies and causes us pain, inflammation and fatigue.

I am really sorry that this post is long and I hope this hasn't happened to you, if it has I understand.

Louise xxx
RichC
#2 Posted : Friday, January 20, 2012 3:05:37 PM Quote
Rank: Advanced Member


Groups: Registered

Joined: 8/30/2010
Posts: 507
Location: Gravesend
Hiya Louise ,
sorry you have had such a bad experience with Jobcentre plus (i presume it was them and not a contractor).
Glad the medical went ok .. and i presume you are in the Work Related Activity Group (you had put Work support group , which is a mix of the two groups)

Part of the regulations for Work Related Activity:

A requirement to undertake WRA must be reasonable in the view of the Secretary of
State taking into account the claimant’s circumstances1. The claimant cannot be
required to
1. apply for a job or undertake work, whether as an employee or otherwise or
2. undergo medical treatment2.
1 ESA (WRA) Regs, reg 3(4)(a); 2 reg 3(4)(b)

Point 1 would remove the requirement to do work experience.

There is no strict definition of Work Related Activity but the full Decision Makers Guide section on Work Related Activity is here.
..............................................................................................
From Direct.gov :

Employment and Support Allowance and the Work Programme

If you’re getting Employment and Support Allowance and are in the work-related activity group there are rules about taking part in the Work Programme. You may have to take part from three months before the date your doctor expects you to be fit for work.

There are some exceptions to this, like:

if you’re a full-time carer
if you’re a lone parent with a child under five
...............................................................................................

I would also consider putting in a complaint to JCP (or the contractor if that is who it is ) as it is not their position to comment on your health ..you have already been assessed as having a health issue , and they should have made it clear that both the work programme and the work experience are not mandatory until as above.

All the best

Rich :)
"The difference between 'involvement' and 'commitment' is like an eggs-and-ham breakfast: the chicken was 'involved' - the pig was 'committed'."
Louise09
#3 Posted : Friday, January 20, 2012 10:08:59 PM Quote
Rank: Advanced Member

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Joined: 10/19/2010
Posts: 88
Location: Saddleworth, UK
Thanks Rich,

That's what I needed! I didn't think it was her job to make comment on my condition.

I may have to ask for another adviser.

and Yes its the Work Related Activity Group - I got confused Confused again!

Louise
julieporter123
#4 Posted : Friday, January 20, 2012 10:58:57 PM Quote
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Joined: 10/20/2011
Posts: 50
Location: Coventry
Louise
Please put in a written complaint - she shouldn't talk to you like this.I work for Jobcentre Plus(not ESA) and advisers like that give us all a bad name.There is a complaints procedure that they have to follow and it is thorough,and please do ask for another adviser - the ESA advisers where i work are very supportive.
Julie x
Louise09
#5 Posted : Saturday, January 21, 2012 10:45:50 AM Quote
Rank: Advanced Member

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Joined: 10/19/2010
Posts: 88
Location: Saddleworth, UK
Thanks Julie,

I will put a complaint in. Maybe she was having a bad day and maybe she was trying to let me know there was light at the end of the tunnel, I don't know...

Louise xxx
Naomi1
#6 Posted : Saturday, January 21, 2012 1:27:25 PM Quote
Rank: Advanced Member


Groups: Registered

Joined: 9/3/2011
Posts: 717
Location: Torbay
Dear Louise
I am so sorry that you have had to endure this. I would be really upset too if someone implied that I was making a fuss, putting it on a bit and trying to dodge work. You know and I know the facts that RA affects everyone differently. If this person's relatives are able to work through their RA the all I can say is "Bully for them" and they should be thankful for having a mild disease course. I would certainly consider putting in a complaint so that this person can receive the extra training and education that they are so badly in need of.
Best wishes from Naomi.
Michelle9
#7 Posted : Monday, January 23, 2012 3:05:33 PM Quote
Rank: Advanced Member

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Joined: 6/20/2010
Posts: 62
Location: Manchester
Hi Hun,

I'm so sorry for you and what u have been through, I know too well what it feels like.

I attended a medical last year with atos, and then like u had an appointment with job centre plus. I was 34 at the time and the advisor was exactly the same to me, because of my age etc..... I was signed off work by my GP and then after that appointment they said that I was not entitled to anything, I have always worked very hard, full time with evening jobs before I got diagnosed.

I then appealed the decision and even though I was going back to work I knew this wrong, it ended up going to the Tribunal and it was a unnanimous decision by all that I should have been entitled to the ESA, at this point i was already back at work but I was glad that I challenged it.

Please let me know how you get on Hun.

Xxxxxx
John Game
#8 Posted : Tuesday, January 24, 2012 1:38:06 PM Quote
Rank: Advanced Member

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Joined: 10/17/2011
Posts: 40
Hi Louise
Today I have recieved a letter from DWP saying after a medical in Jan this year I am being put into the wra group. I am waiting for the letter to say come into the jobcentre to see somebody /after reading the reply from Richc I will be ready for them the knowledge he has on this subject is very valuable to all. But in your other reply from Julie in which she says they are wrong to speak to you in that way as she works in that environment is of help as it gives you two different points of veiws but they better not say anything about my condition as I have twelve months to go before I retire as I will turn into victor meldrew. Good luck to all who are going after benefits as you deserve them as no one has a choice with regard to RA because if you had then I know which one I would give up to go back to work fit and healthy but no that is the way it works/ I am also going to a tribunal within six months to claim DLA as I have been turned down twice because I can virtually walk will post a new note when I get the results from the jobcentre and courts JohnThumpUp
bevie
#9 Posted : Thursday, January 26, 2012 12:17:47 PM Quote
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Joined: 12/4/2009
Posts: 346
Hi Louise so sorry you have had to go through all this. The person interviewing you should not have let her personal family experiences come into the interview at all and i am sure she shouldn't have commented about them either. Applying for benefits is stressful enough as it is and we don't deserve to be treated like this.

All the best.

Bevxx
Louise09
#10 Posted : Thursday, January 26, 2012 2:40:53 PM Quote
Rank: Advanced Member

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Joined: 10/19/2010
Posts: 88
Location: Saddleworth, UK
Good Luck John, I hope you don't turn in to a Victor - although he makes me laugh!

Michelle - Thanks for understanding and well done for "going all the way" with the tribunal - that couldnt have been easy for you. I am 40 and as the adviser said I have another 25 years to work!! Scary!

Bevie - Hear hear! It makes it so hard for genuine people to get it across to people without RA without being stereotyped as we are all different.

Good luck to you all and a big thanks to Rich BigGrin
Louise09
#11 Posted : Friday, January 27, 2012 5:20:38 PM Quote
Rank: Advanced Member

Groups: Registered

Joined: 10/19/2010
Posts: 88
Location: Saddleworth, UK
I have sent an email of complaint to the JCP.

I also wanted it noted that "RA is a debilitating disease and unfortunately stress does not help the condition. I fully understand why this process is carried out for people on ESA if they have "back ache" or "a broken leg" as their complaints will get easier with time but for people with RA/Fibromyalgia and other Autoimmune related Diseases there is no 'cure' just strong drugs that leave patients with severe side effects."

It wont do any good but I felt better getting it off my chest!BigGrin Lets see what happens.

Lxxx
RichC
#12 Posted : Friday, January 27, 2012 5:38:56 PM Quote
Rank: Advanced Member


Groups: Registered

Joined: 8/30/2010
Posts: 507
Location: Gravesend
Hi Louise ,
Good that you have complained .. i take it you have seen this document " Jobcentre plus -our service standards" particularly the complaints process from page 14 onwards with regard the time limits they have set themselves and ultimately taking the complaint further if you haven't received a response you are happy with.

Complaints are like a mini-social policy exercise, if enough people complain, even with private companies , then the organisation has to implement change.
I would hope for a reply that apologised and stated that retraining of all staff was planned .
Again if you are not happy with the local reply , go to the next stage in their complaints procedure . ( You would deal with any private company or the NHS exactly the same.. using their internal complaints )

Let us know how it goes :) Yayyyy !

Rich :)
"The difference between 'involvement' and 'commitment' is like an eggs-and-ham breakfast: the chicken was 'involved' - the pig was 'committed'."
bevie
#13 Posted : Saturday, January 28, 2012 4:44:12 PM Quote
Rank: Advanced Member


Groups: Registered

Joined: 12/4/2009
Posts: 346
Good for you Louise, i hope they do something about it.

Bevxx
Louise09
#14 Posted : Thursday, February 23, 2012 1:18:02 PM Quote
Rank: Advanced Member

Groups: Registered

Joined: 10/19/2010
Posts: 88
Location: Saddleworth, UK
Hello again!

I thought I'd let you know that I received a phone call from the Job Centre apologising for the treatment I received and I was removed from the advisers list and moved to another. I went to see them today for another interview and they have decided that I do not need to come in again but they will phone me after my appointment with the consultant in mid March.

Altogether it was a pleasant experience this time. There is light at the end of the tunnel!

Thank you for your support!

Gentle hugs to you all!

L xxx
John Game
#15 Posted : Wednesday, February 29, 2012 3:40:18 PM Quote
Rank: Advanced Member

Groups: Registered

Joined: 10/17/2011
Posts: 40
Hi Louise
I had to report to my local job centre full of concern as to what would happen only to be told before I sat down no worry we are not asking you to work. My first thought was why ask me to come in at all!!! . The good news is for everybody do not fear these people as she could not have been more helpful and even said sorry for getting me in the afterthought was if I had another letter from a different office then phone her and she will conduct all of the questions over the phone all in all not to bad.ThumpUp
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